peek for this week's episode. Like the main joys of visiting the Mississippi come from slowing down.
And I'm Melissa.
And we are the Sunshine Travelers. Our passion is travel and sharing our experiences with those who enjoy it as much as we do, or those who want to learn more about travel, or even those who just want to live vicariously through our travel stories. No matter where you fall along that or even those who just want journey, to live vicariously through our travel stories. No matter where you fall along that journey, get ready to hear about our firsthand experiences as we visit some of the most interesting and amazing places on earth. This week, we talked to author and podcast host Dean Klingenberg about some ideas for visiting some unique locations along the wild Mississippi. Dean will share some of his memories from researching the book and give some suggestions of places to visit that you may not be familiar with. So pack your bags and bring your hiking shoes as we travel with Dean down the Mississippi
who may be looking for domestic travel options, or if you're thinking about maybe you want to travel but don't want to fly anywhere, we want to give you a few trip ideas. Last week, we discussed Amelia Island for those seeking a beach destination. In episode 48, we talked about the Kentucky Bourbon Trail, and in episode 30, we focused on New Orleans. We'll list a few other episodes in the show notes to help give you some ideas about U.S.-based destinations to visit this summer. But in this episode, we will be exploring the Mississippi River and learning new things that we never knew about this magnificent body of water with a rich history into itself.
So Dean said in his podcast that as Americans, we want to travel and see the great rivers of the world, such as the Nile and the Amazon. But we have such a great river here in the U.S. that we often take for granted. Or he said a lot of people just go and see the river and move on to the next thing or see the other things around it. And I think we are guilty of that, the times that we have been to see the Mississippi. So let's bring Dean in now and hear what he has to tell us about the Mississippi River. Our guest today is Dean Klinkenberg, author of The Wild Mississippi. He is also the host of the Mississippi Valley Traveler podcast. So we're excited to have Dean on the show. Welcome to our show, Dean.
Well, hi, Melissa and Scott. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast.
Yeah, excellent. We were just talking earlier is that as we look through your book and we've listened to some of the podcast episodes and things like that, there's a real good synergy between what we like to do with our listeners, which is to help them travel more and better. And you've pulled out some really great things about the Mississippi that I didn't even know existed. And so we're just really excited to talk to you about that.
thanks. I mean, flatter me all you want. So keep that coming. That's great. I've been doing it for a while. So hopefully I know a few places by this time.
Yeah. But give us a little background about you. What sparked your interest in writing about the Mississippi River? So I got hooked on the Mississippi
when I was a college kid. I kind of grew up in suburbs and small towns in the Midwest. In high school, I graduated from a small town high school in the middle of the plains in Southern Minnesota. So we were surrounded by cornfields and soybean fields and those kinds of things. I chose to go to school in La Crosse, Wisconsin. And I still remember clearly in my head that first drive when you take Interstate 90 from Albert Lee to La Crosse and you're going east. And just before you get to La Crosse and you're going And just before east. you get to La Crosse and you pass through all this farmland. And just before you get to La Crosse, the road starts to dip down and turn a little bit. And then just before you opens up this incredible river valley and it's 500 plus feet down from where we just were. So you head down these bluffs and you see this expansive valley with the river and multiple channels and islands that are covered in green. And that kind of got my attention right away. And those years in lacrosse, I got to spend a lot of to the riverside and I'd sit there and think for a little while. And the bluffs along that area are about 500 feet tall and there are lots of hiking trails. And I love going for a hike up and around the bluffs. And just sitting on the edge of a bluff and looking out over this valley, you could see for 30, 40 miles. So that's really when I got hooked on the river itself. But it was many years after that before I started writing about it.
Yeah. You know, there's a saying that if you're ever having a bad day, just go to the water and give it 15 minutes and it'll totally change your perspective and attitude.
I've heard this from so many people too. In fact, somebody I was just talking with today said the same basic thing on the upper part of the river where he likes going there just because it helps him calm down. Yeah. And I've talked to the vets, combat vets, who talked about their struggles with PTSD, who really found most of their peace and solace from time on the river, on the water. So there's something therapeutic and magical about water.
Well, let's jump in and talk a little bit about the book. You've got a book that's going to release on May 21st, and it's called The Wild Mississippi. It's on YouTube.
of it there. You know, tell us a little bit about the book and, you know, what's your thoughts on this for people who might pick this up and want to use it? And how did you intend for this to be used? What I did finally
get around to start writing about the river, I wrote guidebooks for people who are driving along the Great River Road. So I've got a book called Road Tripping the Great River Road that only covers the upper half of the river, but it was geared toward people who might be interested in the cultural, historical aspects, where to eat, where to stay, that kind of thing. And not as much about the environment of the river. And over time, you know, it got through my thick skull finally that the attraction here really is the river itself. And how well do we all really understand that, what the river really is. So, Timber Press approached me about writing this book, and right away I understood I needed to do this. It's a good companion to the other book, but this book really focuses just on the natural world of the Mississippi. So the first half of the book provides kind of a description of the different ecosystems, wetlands, forests, that kind of thing, grasslands and prairies, and describes what those ecosystems are like and what kind of life they support. And then the second half of the book goes through all 10 states the Mississippi touches and lists public lands that people can visit to get close to the river. So I think there are 166 public places listed in this book. I really wanted something that would help encourage people to spend time to slow down when they're at the river and spend time looking at the river and taking it in and trying to see the river as valuable unto itself, I guess. So many of us look at the big rivers and we think of transportation. We think about barges. And the Mississippi, it's our Amazon. It's far more than just a place to ship bulk products. But I think most of us don't fully understand how the river works and all the different parts and how important it is for all those parts to be connected. So I'm hoping this book will help people see it like that.
Yeah. And what I think is great about it landscapes that you will find, like you mentioned, the swamps and the estuaries and the prairies and then the animals as well. So you have whole sections on what fish you'll find and what mammals you'll find and how to look for them. And the fact that because the bald eagle population has risen so much, right? You're likely to see the bald eagle nest and things like that. But then also just as a practical guide, right? So where can I go to a state park? And what can I do there? You know, where can I ride bikes? Where can I hike? Where can I, you know, do some of these fantastic trails? And so you really lay out both of those things. So I think a diverse, you know, population will really enjoy that for, you know, to meet their needs of their travel.
Yeah. So one of the things in my head, I'm kind of, I think of it kind of like a city guide. If you, that model, if you bought a guidebook for Paris, you would get a history of Paris, you would get a layout of the city, the neighborhoods, but you're not going to get a description of every single building in paris that i could not describe every single life form that exists along the mississippi it would be you know 100 books maybe like that so it's not a field guide in the sense of like a birding guide there are i do talk about different kinds of life but if you're really intent on finding a way to identify that bird or that plant, you'll probably need some supplemental resources to do that. So I just want to make sure people understand how I kind of thought about this book.
one of the things, Melissa and I both grew up in the South, and we always think about the Mississippi as being part of the South. you mentioned that it's 10 states connected to the, to the Mississippi. And, you know, I just scratched my head and I was like, gosh, there's so much about the Mississippi that I have no clue about, even though we've been to Mississippi in places like Mississippi and, and, and so forth. I, you know, I think about, you said prairies, and I would never associate a prairie with
it Yeah, wouldn't have been the top of my head either when I started this book, but I began to realize there are a couple different kinds of prairies along the river, and some of them are at river level. Of course, the river touched on tall grass prairies before, you know, the areas that were tall grass prairies before we turned them into farms. And there are even prairies in Arkansas and Louisiana where you wouldn't expect to find them, but for different reasons than you have them in the middle part of the country. And then up north, you know, on the top of bluffs, we have these things we call goat prairies. And they're basically just these clear patches of prairie on top of the bluffs that a lot of, you know, for many generations, they were managed with fire. Yeah. Indigenous people, native Americans use fire to keep those, those clear. But today we still burn them some to get, to manage it that way. But yeah, there's all these different prairies. I think that's one of the fun things. I, one of the things I liked so much about doing this book is it just, it opened up my own mind so much about all these different ecosystems and different types of habitats along the river. And you can find so many different little pockets of life that are completely different from each other. And sometimes they're only 50 feet away.
Let's talk about some of the places that you discuss in the book. One of the things that you said that resonated with me is the places that you chose, it wasn't just somewhere where you could get out of the car and go for a short hike and see water, right? There was something to do in each of the locations.
Yeah, that was important to me. There are some places that really provide a nice view and not much else. And I like those places too, but I kind of figured if you're traveling along the river and you're going to stop to get out of your car for a little bit to where I really, I kind of white knuckled a little bit, not because there was a cliff or anything, but because of the mud and I was afraid of getting stuck. I didn't want to include places that might be difficult to get to, or you might need four wheel drive to get in and out of. So they're accessible. And when you get there, there's something to do. And most of them, it's a hike. And most of these places, it's trails or it's walking along the riverbank. But it's something you can spend at least a half hour, if not more, walking around.
great too, because if somebody is traveling there, and let's say that they fly and they need to rent a car, right? And so then they won't have access to those four-wheel drives. So I think that's, yeah, I think that's excellent. And then you also mentioned a lot of places where you could rent the bikes or you could rent, you know, the watercraft or whatever in some of these places that are, you know, state parks or different places.
there are a lot of options, a lot of opportunities to do things in many of these folks. And honestly, I think there's more of that on the upper half of the river than lower half, but we can get into that a little bit too.
Look forward to it. I mean, talking about the flying somewhere and getting in the car, I loved what you said where, you know, so many people fly to a destination, they rented the car, they go to the Mississippi and they say, okay, I've done it. And they turn around and leave. And so this book is really about helping you get beyond just that visual. There's the mighty Mississippi and really get on to experiencing it.
Yeah. And I think that we are guilty of that, right? We were trying to think through when we have visited the Mississippi. And I think we came up with when my sister lived in Mississippi and we went over to Vicksburg for the day. Right. And you two were around and you can take the trail and go see it. And then, of course, in New Orleans. Right. But there it is what and I guess that's what we end up thinking as the Mississippi is that you're you're level with it. Right. And then here you are and then here's the river. But then you're what you're describing then in the north part of the river is that you have these really tall bluffs, right? Where, you know, and you're up a lot higher and stuff like that. So just the landscape as you, you know, travel to different places on the river, how different that's going to look and how wide it is versus how narrow it is. And then, of course, like we said, what you're going to find there.
Can you share any, you know, interesting antidotes or stories while you're spending time exploring and, you know, researching this book? Maybe people that you ran into that had an impact on you.
Yeah. One of the things that you really came away feeling good about, the number of people that are really connected to the river and care about it. I spent a lot of time in public lands, obviously. So you meet park rangers and volunteers. Almost all these places rely heavily on volunteers for staffing the office or talking with visitors. And many of them rely on volunteers for pulling invasives or that kind of thing. So I felt really good about the number of people that are directly involved in trying to care for these places. So that was good. And of course, there are lots of people who fish. You can't walk along Mississippi anywhere near a town and not find somebody fishing there. And it cuts across any demographic boundary you want to identify. Just about anybody will go fish there. So those are all great. I had some fun experiences doing this, and some that I don't know if most people would consider them fun, but I remember hiking in a national wildlife refuge near Vicksburg, actually, at St. Catherine Creek. And it was late fall or mid-fall, like October. And it was clear this trail did not get a lot of foot traffic. And I knew that because, you know, five minutes in, there was a giant spider web across the trail. And I kept finding spider webs across the trail. And there was giant orb weavers in all of these webs. Now, I knew they were not dangerous. I wasn't especially bothered by them, but I also didn't really want to make them angry. So, you know, I was careful about working my way around them, but it was really fascinating to me. It kind of felt like, I know the word wilderness can kind of get overused because we have changed so many of the wild places around us, but this place kind of felt a little untouched for a little while because there were so many of these spider webs across the trail. I felt like somebody, like an explorer almost, somebody who was seeing this for the first time. And I got some fun pictures, some good close-ups of spiders. So it may not be everybody's idea of fun, though.
Yeah, but that's neat. I mean, to be in a place where you think, I mean, this is really off the beaten path, right? Like there hasn't been somebody here, at least today. I know there's fighters in the fall. They work quickly, but you know, at least today, like you're not in this, in the place, you know, where thousands of people have traveled and seen that. So yeah, that's really awesome.
floodplain forest, you know, so, you know, just nearby me, the ground was pretty wet yet from the river being a little high at that particular point. So, I wasn't, you know, wandering through a forest far away from the river or high above. This was basically down in the floodplain. It was really cool. Very atmospheric.
Very neat.
let's jump into, you know know one of the things that we like to do and we said this kind of early on is help people travel more and better and you know knowing that a lot of the people who listen to our podcast probably have a fairly limited exposure to the breadth of the Mississippi. Why don't we ask you to give us some locations for different parts of the year that you might recommend that people check out? And we can start with summer. You know, we've got summer coming up, people thinking about planning their summer trip. What would you recommend for them?
I think you probably want to go north, for one thing. I you mean, live in the south, so would you recommend for them? I think you probably want to go north for one thing. I mean, you live in the south, so I'm not sure you really want to be hanging around the Mississippi and Mississippi or Arkansas in July and August so much. People do it, but probably you want to go for a shoulder season for that. So I'd go north. And I have some of my favorite spots, but I really think people should get a good sense of how the river changes along its course and fully appreciate how this river develops and the life that supports changes during its length. So the river starts, you know, we picked the starting point as the Lake Itasca in northern Minnesota at Itasca State Park. It's about four hours by car from Minneapolis, and I think it's just one of the most spectacular parks along the Mississippi. Not just because we consider it where the river starts, but there are patches of old-growth red and white pine, which are very rare anymore. We logged most of that long ago. So you can get the experience of what the northern forests were like in this place. Plus, you can wade across the Mississippi, and they have a really nice lodge and cabins you can stay in, a big campground. It's a very popular place in the summertime. If you're going to go and be there on a weekend, you probably should make advanced reservations to make sure you've got a room or a campsite during the week you may not need to. But I love that spot a lot. And part of what I think about, too, is what kind of experience do you want? Because, you know, Mississippi can offer just about anything you want. And if you want an outdoors experience, that's one thing. If you want more of the city experience along the river, Minneapolis and St. Paul are both really vibrant cities. And you could spend weeks there without running out of things to do or seeing the same thing twice. And the riverfront through Minneapolis and St. Paul is really beautiful and designed for public access. So there are bike trails that run along both banks of the river in Minneapolis and St. Paul. It's a fantastic place to be in the summertime. It can get hot, but not like Mississippi hot or
Florida hot. I think that's a great point because it's not all spiders in your face. There are these large cities that are located along the Mississippi as well.
that's one of the things you start with is what kind of experience you're looking for. And there are plenty of places you can have more of the outdoors experience. And I think in the book in Minnesota was probably the hardest state for me to narrow down my choices for which public lands to include because there are so many and so many really interesting ones. So if you go south of the Twin Cities, out south of St. Paul, the river enters an area called the Driftless area. And you probably wonder if you left the Midwest and ended up in New England or some other part of the country because the terrain looks so different from everything around there. Rolling hills, some steep valleys and places, lots of creeks and rivers, beautiful exposed limestone bluffs, lots of forests, a lot of public lands. It's a really beautiful part of the river. And through there, the river valley is three to five miles wide, but it's framed by these majestic limestone bluffs on both sides. So you feel very much like you're in a river valley. And there are a lot of opportunities for outdoor activity in that stretch of the river and a whole bunch of small towns that cater to visitors. There's one stretch called Lake Pepin, which is a natural widening in the river's channel. And it's surrounded by small towns and almost all of them have vacation rentals. Some of them have people who take sailboat trips out on that stretch of the river. There's good food. I mean, it's surprisingly good food in some of these smaller communities. Artists have shops. So you could have kind of a mix of experiences through there. If you want more of the historical cultural experience, you can do that. If you want to get on the river and do some hiking and other places, there are a lot of opportunities for that too.
So that sounds good so you could you could have a city experience you could go to some of these state parks and recreation sites and then explore some of the small towns and so i mean i know that doesn't give people a lot of time but if they had a like a say a week in the summer to take a vacation like they could they could kind of hit a lot quite things.
quite things. You could easily spend a couple of weeks.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Yeah. For me, like one of the hardest things is telling people how much time to spend for doing some of these things. And I think this is where you have to decide your priorities when you're traveling. What do you really want to see and do? I really like the idea of being able to spend time at the river. Obviously, that's why I wrote this book. idea of being able to spend time at the river. Obviously, that's why I wrote this book. And if you have the chance to sort of stay in one place for two or three days, I think you tend to see a little bit more, especially if you can watch how the river changes during the day. Mark Twain wrote pretty eloquently about what a sunrise is like. I'm not much of a morning person, so I prefer sunsets. But when I'm camping on the river, the sun rises, I am forced to look at them. And they're beautiful. But I think you see different things at different times of day. So if you have that flexibility to stay near the river or visit it repeatedly throughout the day, you tend to see more wildlife activity in the morning and in the evening. So just after sunrise, just before sunset, in the middle of the day, especially if it's hot, most of the animals like us are pretty, they're laying around and taking it
So would you recommend that state park then for people to stay for extended period of time? Or is there another town that would be kind of give you a good jumping off point? If
driving in an RV or a camper of some kind or looking to camp, the state parks are a pretty good option. In both Minnesota and Wisconsin, you have to pay an entrance fee, a vehicle fee to get in, plus you pay for the campsite and they charge a different nightly rate depending upon if you're a resident or a non-resident. So those can get a little expensive. There's a hack I found. So this is the other thing about it. If you reserve online, there's another fee for that as well. But if you call the same day, they have a reservation number you can call, and you don't usually pay that reservation fee then if you call the same day, just taking a chance that there's going to be something available. The Corps of Engineers, Army Corps of Engineers, operate some recreation areas along the Mississippi too, and they tend to be less expensive. There's no fee to get in. They do charge a camp fee per night. They tend to be a little more crowded or dense. They tend
Yeah. Our experience with Army
Some of them are pretty rustic. There are some along the river that have no services at all, but they do have some full-service campgrounds too. It's just the sites tend to be a little close together for my tastes. And then there are some parks, some areas where there's a backcountry camping. So I can think of a couple of state parks where you grab your backpack. Like Itasca State Park is one of them. I've done this a couple of times. You can hike two or three miles away from where you parked and be out in the middle of the wilderness and camp and have nobody around you. So there are a few opportunities like that,
too. Awesome So I mean, it sounds like then, I mean, you kind of have the wide range, right? So if you need to find, like you said, a lodge or a cabin or something like that, they've got you covered. But if you want the complete backcountry experience. Well, let's move into fall. So let's say, I mean, typically in the fall, people only have time for like long weekend So where trips. should we head for I typically mean, in the people fall, only have time for like long weekend trips. So where should we head for a long weekend trip in the fall?
definitely going to send them back to the Driftless area for that. So fall is, it surprises a lot of people, but fall is really the busiest travel time along the upper Mississippi because of the colors. It may not be like New England, but we do have some pretty brilliant fall colors along the Mississippi. And besides that, it's harvest season. So there are lots of farmer's markets or lots of roadside stands with people selling fresh produce, end of season produce. And that's a good cheap way to stock up your pantry too. Or if you're camping and you just want fresh food to cook with, there are lots of places to do that. If you're camping and you just want fresh food to cook there are with, lots of places to do that. So fall I really like going is, north to the Driftless which is a little area, more a little more rugged, a little more wilder, open spaces and places. The accommodations tend to book up pretty early. So if you're going to be there on a I would definitely weekend, advise getting a reservation in advance as soon as you can. Traveling at the last minute, you may not have a lot of choices or you may have to go further away from the river to find a place to stay. So yeah, you could go. That's a good time to be further south too. The weather is really much more pleasant in Mississippi and Louisiana. So I think that's a good time to visit some of those places, the National Wildlife Refuges on the lower part of the Mississippi. Although, you know, when I was doing the research for this book, I was there at the end of September and it was still 100
Yeah, I was going to say, probably until you get to November, it stays pretty hot in
to say,
south. So, well, awesome. So, now what was so interesting is, and I don't remember exactly where I read it in the book, but you mentioned strapping on a pair of snowshoes and walking somewhere. So tell us where, where's your pick for winter or maybe a couple of different places again, maybe for a long, you know, long weekend trip or somebody looking for something for their Christmas
Well, I know a lot of people are averse to cold. So the idea of going north in the wintertime may seem counterintuitive. Yeah. New Orleans, obviously, is going to be a fun place to be in the wintertime. And so I'll just say the obvious. If you want decent weather and you don't want to have to bundle up, then the lower part of the river, especially places around Baton Rouge, New Orleans, Vicksburg, and that stretch are going to be awesome places to visit that time of year. And there's no shortage of things to do down there. If you want more of a winter experience, if you want to live like a local a little bit or get a taste of what it's like in the middle of January up north. So one of my favorites is Itasca State Park again. They have a few lodges, cabins that stay open year round. The last time I checked, they were $100, $110 a night. And the park also offers snowshoes for free. Or maybe there's a small fee now, but you can rent snowshoes there. There are some cross-country ski trails if you have cross-country skis. You're not going to have very many people around you. So you can have this outdoor winter experience with the birds that are still up there and maybe hear a wolf howling and then enjoy a nice fire and hot cocoa or whatever your beverage of choice is when you get back to your cabin. So that's nice. And you can have different kinds of winter experiences up there. Snowmobiles are really popular. There aren't always places that rent those. So you may need to make a friend who will take you out on their snowmobile. But I enjoy going up there in winter almost as much as I enjoy leaving there in winter and going back to warmer weather.
neat because I don't think that we would think of you know as many people think of going skiing and that kind of thing but if if you're you know would be more interested in and like you said having that experience and doing some yeah cross-country type stuff for the the snowshoes and just enjoying the snow so very cool so
that leads us into spring and that seems like that would be a really cool time to be in different parts of the Mississippi.
I think my dream trip might be like, I don't know, February or so, starting in New Orleans and just taking my time and working my way up river. Spring is fantastic because the songbird migration and there's a lot of waterfowl to move to. But it's just you get to see things coming back to life the trees start to bud back out there are lots of wildflowers in bloom and the forest floors and then the birds are really coming back in big numbers so i i would probably start you know at one of the public lands in the southern reaches of the mississippi one of the public lands in the southern reaches of the Mississippi, Louisiana or Mississippi or Arkansas, and spend some time down there. February might be a touch early. Maybe March would be a little better time to start. And you have to pay attention to the river levels then too. Some of the places in this book tend to flood. And along the lower Mississippi, high water season can start as early as January and may go until May. And it just varies from year to year. It doesn't usually go much longer than that. But the water can still be pretty high in March and April. So some places may not be accessible. Some of the wildlife refuges that are really basically just a few feet above, you know, the river right now could be underwater. So you've got to, if there are places that you're really set on visiting that time of year, you need to check the water levels or check with the parks or refuges to make sure they're open and not flooded.
And one thing that's great about the way that you have this book, I mean, you've got all the information in there too, right? So if you're looking at that one specific place, you've got the addresses you can look up, you've got phone numbers to, you know, contact so that you can call and say, hey, what is it? What plan your trip and kind of pick and choose. Because obviously, unless you have a lot of time, you're not going to hit all 166 plus places, but you can kind of pick and choose, you know, based on your interest.
Yeah. And if you start maybe late spring and, you know, over a week or so, you might still see pretty good change from the south up to St. Louis and a little further north. you So, spring know, can be really variable up in this part of the country. you So, in know, St. Louis, Old Perga North. you So, spring know, can be really variable up in this part of the country. So, you know, in St. Louis, some years we have spring in March and some years it's still cold in early May. So I can't guarantee good weather for any of these things, but this year we had a very early spring and the birds in particular started migrating earlier than normal and a lot of wildflowers bloomed earlier than usual. So, yeah, if those are things that are really important to you, then I would say do a little bit of research on what the weather's been like so you know what you're likely to see when you go there.
wanted to ask you, I read that you have done some like Mississippi River cruise, like gone on them as like a lecture and things like that. Because I know that doing a road trip or camping or, you know, moving from place to place is not going to be easy for everybody. Right. So talk to us a little bit about your experience with one of these river cruises. Who's it good for? Like, are you a fan, not a fan, etc?
fan. Yeah, I thought it was fantastic. I did, I forget how many, a handful of guest lecture excursions with the American Queen, which is no longer in service. That company went out of business earlier this year, and that boat is now owned by American Cruise Lines with our competitor. We don't know what's going to happen yet with that boat. cruise lines with our We don't competitor. know what's going to happen yet with that boat. The river cruises are, they're a good niche. Like you don't, you get to see a lot of the river's wildlife from the boat. You can see the forest. I don't know how often, you know, sometimes you may not see a lot of birds, but in some places you may see some, but they take good care of you. You know, the food's good. The accommodations are good. You don't have to work very hard.
The food's The accommodations are You don't have to work very They tend to skew a little older I could go on one of those cruises now and I probably would still feel like a young So I think that's great for people that like to but may not have good. the mobility they used to good. or maybe not the desire to suffer hard. through some of the hassles we all demographically. have to deal with when we So they're fantastic for I two main companies man. now. travel, have, travel. that. There's, guess,
So American Cruise Lines does
the Mississippi also. And then Okay. from what I I just did read, a little bit of research. You can usually do like the Upper Mississippi or the Lower Mississippi. And then there are some, if you have a long time, you can cruise the whole thing. A lot
A lot of people that listen to our podcast, there are the people that are going to travel to Europe and do a Rhine River cruise, or they're going to go to Egypt and do the Nile. to Egypt and do the Nile. And, you know, so, you know, I think opening this and potentially opening people's eyes that right here in our own backyards, we've got another magnificent river that would be good to cruise is a good, is really a good eye opener for people.
And it's a similar experience too, where you have stops at various ports and you have opportunities to get off and do tours around the cities. You're right, they tend to break them into the lower Mississippi versus the upper Mississippi. Some of them have a focus, a lot of the lower Mississippi cruises will focus on Civil War history. So there'll be lectures from experts on Civil War history, for example. The upper Mississippi, they tend to start cruising there more this late summer, and then through fall is very popular again because of the colors, the leaves. So the upper Mississippi cruises tend to be a little later in the season, but the lower mists, they cruise pretty much all year.
Well, one of the things that we usually ask Melissa to give us is a packing list, right? And I know it's going to depend a little bit on season of what people need to pack, but what are some essential things that you would say that year-round people should pack with them if they're going to go and visit these places on the Mississippi?
shoes, I think, would be essential. Some of the places, they could be muddy. So I make sure I have a separate pair of shoes I put on before I go for a hike. So if I do get slogged through the mud, then I can take them off when I get back to the car. A towel to wipe off. There are going to be bugs, especially in the floodplain forests, if you're anywhere in that part of the river. especially in the floodplain if you're forests, anywhere in that part of the river. So if mosquitoes bother then you'll you, want to bring bug spray. I just tend to dress in long sleeves and wear long pants, and I don't usually put bug spray and on, I wear a hat. So ticks can be an but usually with a hat on, issue, I don't really have a problem with ticks. So there are those kinds of precautions to dress for being outside for a little bit. If it's going to be hot, bring some water along. So have some portable water bottles, a camera. You're going to want to take pictures of things. So if you're a photographer, bring a camera along. I'm not really that much of an expert at identifying plants and birds. So I have a couple of apps on my phone that I use to help me out. I use one called Seek to help me identify plants that works reasonably well. And then for birds, there's an app called Merlin I use that identifies birds based on their songs. I'm partially colorblind, so I'll probably never be a legit birder as it is because the colors would be lost on me.
So I'll probably never be a legit birder as it is because the colors would be lost on But I find bringing those two things along me. really enriches the hikes because it helps me what kind of birds are around you and in the area. Because even here, often we go out for walks because we have some greenway spaces and you'll hear these birds and it's like, what is that? Because that's just, you know, that's really cool. So I have made note of Merlin and I haven't downloaded it yet, but Seek, that was the other one. You said it works offline. So it has a database. So if you're in an area where you don't have good cell coverage and stuff like that, it can still identify plants.
Both of them work, whether you have cell service or not. Seek tries to add a geolocation to your sightings. So it'll get, you know, in places where I've been without cell service, it kind of spins for a little bit until it recognizes there's no cell service. And then it'll tell me what, what it is I just saw. But that doesn't happen too often. I just, I think they're fantastic. Like a lot of mornings when I'm camping, the, as soon as the light hits and I can hear birds around me, I'll roll over and turn on my phone and open up Merlin and let it listen for a little while, like you said. And it's just fun to watch the names of these birds just popping up on my screen. That
neat. I'm glad you mentioned that because Scott actually had that in the notes after we had listened to the podcast. Very cool. Well,
we like to end each interview session by asking each guest three questions. And so everybody answers the same three questions. First one is, what is your favorite place that you've ever visited? And it doesn't have to be on the Mississippi.
is a hard question. I've been lucky enough to travel to about 40 countries, and I'm only missing one U.S. state. I still need to get to Rhode Island. Favorite place I've ever been, I really love Vietnam. I'll put that up near the top of my list.
We've heard that.
Yeah. There are others that I've really enjoyed probably as much, but we had a great time in Vietnam.
cool. Cool. Yeah.
It was surprising, but we've actually heard that from others as well. So you're not alone.
tell us, what are the top spots on your bucket list? Places you've never been that you would like to visit?
Well, right now, I think, you know, hopefully this is going to happen next summer, but I want to go to Africa and I want to, I want to see, you know, the big five. I want to go to Africa and I want to see the big five. I want to do a safari of some kind. And there's a company called Intrepid Travel and maybe you're familiar with. They do kind of small group tours and not the big, you know, the tours with bigger footprints. So we're looking at maybe doing something with them next year to knock that off the bucket list. But I really, really want to do that.
So we're doing that this fall. So we'll have to catch back up with you and share our experiences and of course, the photos.
we'll have
Yeah, I look forward
to that.
There's probably at least one podcast episode out of that. It will
It will be at least one. Yeah, it's not more than one. That's definitely been on our bucket list. So what do you have planned right now? Where are you going next? Or do you have anything planned right now?
Yeah, it's
You know, a lot of my travel this summer is going to be promoting the book, but I will be going north. I'm actually trying to figure out a place to go for a couple of days for a little break, but it will be somewhere along the Mississippi. Where it ends up being will depend on how much time I ultimately have. I have a couple of my favorite spots to go camp near the river that are almost always not crowded. And I tend to keep those my secrets or maybe I'll tell them a personal friend about it. Probably the big trip for this year is I try to get some friends together to do a canoe trip on the Mississippi every summer. And so we're looking at maybe September doing maybe a three-night trip, maybe south of St. Louis. We're still trying to work out where.
very cool. So tell us then for your promoting your book and where you'll be this summer, where kind of will you be and then where can people go find those locations? Like, is there a website or landing page or something like that we can send people
MississippiValleyTraveler.com is my website. And I have travel information on there for the upper part of the river. I keep my events on there as well. So you can look on there to see where I'm going to be. That's probably the best place to go to keep track of all that. I do post some things on social media, on Facebook. I'm the Mississippi Valley Traveler, and I have events. I try to get those posted and updated in there too. So those are good places to track where I'm going to be. So far, most of what I have booked is around St. Louis and north. A few places in Iowa, one up in Minnesota coming up in June. Hopefully there'll be more of that. I'm still trying to work on some dates on the lower part of the river, but probably, as we said, probably in the fall, probably not in the summer.
Yes. So we will put some links in the show notes to your website, to your podcast, and then obviously for the book, which when the podcast airs, it will be out available for purchase.
Yeah. Fantastic. Matter of fact, it should air the same day as its release. So we're kind of excited about the timing of that.
Yeah. Awesome. Dean, is there anything else that you would want to share, would want to leave us with? You know, just thoughts about the book or about the Mississippi in general? Yeah,
the things I've been thinking about with this is I really do think one of the, like, the main joys of visiting the Mississippi come from slowing down and really taking time to look around and look at the details, pay attention to what's around you. Mountains, you know, they're easy to appreciate. They're majestic. They're big. You know, they command our attention. But with the Mississippi, I think we have to kind of really slow down and really pay attention to what's around us before we really begin to fully appreciate the world that it supports. So I hope people will do that. They'll take the book and they'll just maybe a lawn chair or something and they'll sit for a little bit and spend some time looking around them and listening and seeing what they can discover about the world of Mississippi.
Awesome.
I don't think I could summarize it any better than that. Dean, thank you for joining. Thank you for having me.
having me. It was
a lot of fun. So we wanted to talk to Dean about raising awareness of the Mississippi River as a travel destination, maybe a place for inspiration, rejuvenation, and relaxation. So this
really hit home for me because when I was growing up, my family would take a lot of road trips, especially in the summer. We did a lot of camping and visiting state parks and national historic sites and things like that. Both of my parents were teachers, so we had the time to do that in the summer. But then also we didn't typically fly places. And so that's really familiar with, for me, right? Camping in state parks and going to these different parks. So this episode really, and our conversation with Dean really excited me to, you know, maybe do a road trip and go back and explore some of the Mississippi and along the Mississippi this way.
Yeah, and as I said in the interview, never thought about the north end of the Mississippi and some of the major cities that are on the river. We've talked about Mississippi in terms of in Mississippi or in New Orleans, Louisiana, you know, places like that, but not those north end like Minnesota and places coming down the river. So if you happen to be in one of these cities for a work trip or, you know, passing through on your summer vacation, you might want to extend that and add an extra few days. Maybe like if you're in New Orleans or St. Louis or Minneapolis, stop in and spend a few days around the Mississippi and explore some of the places in the guidebook.
Yes, for sure. And I really think this has encouraged me to want to do that. Possibly like he talked about in the summer, flying up there and then taking that drive up to Minnesota and visiting the headwaters of the Mississippi, Lake Itasca. That just sounds really interesting to me. And I haven't been to Minnesota and Wisconsin and some of those states either. But I was also super intrigued by the part where he talked about, you know, getting out in your snowshoes or doing the cross-country skiing and maybe using it as a, you know, a winter destination too.
Yeah, I never even thought about that. So we're going to put a link to Dean's book, The Wild Mississippi, in our show notes. We encourage you to purchase this book and use it as a resource in planning your trip to one of the many places that he highlights to help you uncover the wild Mississippi.
with Dean, listening to his podcast and reading his book, I think you and I are going to have to work in some weekend visits to a few of the places that he mentioned. How about you? Do you have any travel stories of visiting the mighty Mississippi? Send them to me, scott at sunshinetravelers.com. We are always inspired by your adventures. When you're
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